Thursday, 6:27 a.m.
March 17th, can you believe it? 2022
From the Salt Lake Valley.
Greetings in the spirit of Grace.
And we can’t leave out peace, dear friend,
So, I hung out on Bruce’s channel last night. He calls his channel BLESSED BIBLE FIGHT CLUB.
Cute name.
We were suppose to discuss the trinity of God. But if you listen… to the discussion, you’ll see that it’s hard to unpack the “trinity” without the whole structure of churchianity falling apart. And thus we talked a lot about God, the savior of all, and God’s use of the word AION in the scriptures.
So, I think I figured out Bruce’s thinking… follow me here:
- Bruce insisted that I say “Jesus is God”.
- I insisted that Bruce acknowledge (sp?) that Jesus DIED for our sins and was really DEAD when He DIED.
Bruce struggled with the idea that “God can and did die”.
But I didn’t have much problem saying that “Jesus is God”. I tried to share with Bruce that there are plenty of things in the Bible that are ABSOLUTELY true and plenty of things that are RELATIVELY true. And the word “GOD” is thrown around in the Bible in that kind of way. Sometimes the word “GOD” is used of God the creator of all things, sometimes it’s used of “the God of this world” (satan), on occasion humans are called “Gods” — so says Jesus.
So if God is a word used of Jesus, I have no problem with that. But in trying to discover the nature of “God”… and the nature of “Jesus”… why not actually embrace phrases from the Bible, like that phrase that Jesus is “the beginning of the creation of God”. (Rev 3:14).
What an interesting snippet of God’s word?
If Jesus is the first thing to come out of God, well, hells bells, let’s take a peek and see what we can see.
Why, that would explain a lot of things, don’t cha see.
The Jehovah or YHWY (Yahweh) which we see in the Old Testament, that forth fella in the fiery furnace with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, … that must have been Jesus, BEFORE He showed up in Bethlehem, Son of Mary.
So we may suggest that the God of the Old Testament was Jesus before He was born to Mary and got the name “Jesus” which we call Him nowadays.
Now the question is: Is it a problem to believe He is both the “beginning of the creation of God” and God ???
No harder than believing all that three-in-one material.
What ever comes out of God is God. Especially the very first thing that comes out of God. That would be God too.
There’s no way for God to communicate with us dumb ones on Earth… without a whole lot of “slow talking” … So God treats us all as if we’re 5 years old… with lots of figurative language… very, very, colorful language. And some of us get it.
So, Bruce struggles with the idea that “God died”… but doesn’t it make sense that the “beginning of the creation of God” should have the experience of DEATH… after all, putting His Son on the cross was an act of love, mercy, power, truth, evil, grace, completion, — so much — Just to bring us back ??? I mean that’s INSIGHT.
The Son of God died a horrible death, for us.
The Son of God was entombed for our sakes.
The Son of God was roused from among the dead, and God, the Father was pleased. And Glorified.
Keep in mind, we’re just kids here… 12-years old… trying to understand the revelation of God… And fighting over a kid’s understanding of things… well… it’s laughable… and ultimately forgettable in God’s timing… God “eonian purpose”.
I think sometime in the future, we’ll have to explore the phrase GOD IS ONE… as it’s found many times in the Bible.
It’s not a casual, throw-away, line… The Jews use that phrase… Paul uses that phrase… but by and large, we of the “evangelical” mindset… DON’T USE THAT PHRASE… but why?
GOD IS ONE… it’s used some 16 times… by my counting.
It must be an important idea in God’s mind if He stuck it in the Bible so many times… and …
It must be an important phrase if the fancy-schmacy, self-righteous, James Gangers and Traditional Christians are so HOT and HEAVY about God being THREE-IN-ONE.
How about if we go this far for the moment…
God is One… is an understandable concept, even if we’ve never taken a moment to try to understand it. However…
God is Three-In-One is an UN-understandable concept even if we ponder it for 55 years like I have. (I got my start in the faith in 1967 and it’s now 2022, using that ole 5-grade arithmetic, I get 55 years.)
Now as to Jesus’ rank and status and nature and character… you know… all the stuff we know about Him… doesn’t He give glory and honor to the Father? Why would those trinitarians be so mad at us for suggesting the Son of God is a “chip off the old block”… if you meet one you’ve met the other… He is “the beginning of the creation of God”. (Rev 3:14)
I tell you… when you see God and His Son in this way, can you feel the pain God must have felt when Christ went to the cross?
Eloi, Eloi, Lama Sabachthani, indeed. (“My God, My God, Why Hasth Thou Forsaken Me.)
That phrase right there, should give us pause regarding using trinitarian’s arguments. Jesus was not “God” in every sense of the word if He shouted out Eloi, Eloi, Lama Sabachthani. He was praying TO God. He was hurting. It was the end. It was a sacrifice. It was serious.
That fella who was in the oven with Shadrach, Meshach and Abednigo, was now on the cross. The flames couldn’t kill Him, but He laid down His life… there… in a Roman pole… for our sin.
And the Father raised Him 3 days later.
Keep in mind that figurative language is both wonderful and sometimes confusing. Bruce admitted that Jesus’ (as God) death did not fit well into his understanding of things… “How can God die?” was what I remember him saying.
So, when Jesus says “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up”, Jesus is clearly using some types of figures of speech as He calls His body the “temple” of God… get it? A figure of speech?
And don’t forget, we, the believers are also called the temple of God”… in Paul’s writings… again it’s wonderful, figurative language.
There is a sense in which Christ was the “temple” of God. And there is a sense in which we are the “temple” of God. But God dwells throughout the heavens, who can actually build a “temple” big enough, grand enough to hold Him ???
Is Jesus God?
Is Jesus the Son of God?
The dwelling place of God?
“Ye are Gods” ???
The “God of this world” ??
“All out of Him” (Rom 11:36), — compared to — “the beginning of the creation of God” (Rev 3:14) ???
The Son of God on the cross ???
May God give us the grace to believe Him.
And grant us a spirit of wisdom and revelation, in the realization of Him. (Eph 1:16) — I think that’s all we really want. Ok, gotta scoot…
Thanks for spending some time reading these notes.
7:42 a.m. Grace to you.
Ace.
The Ace Theological Company 