NOTES ON THE SCANDAL OF THE CROSS

Dear One,
Wanna hear a scandalous thing?
“The cross” is a scandal. Yeah, not kidding.

Makes people whisper. Gossip. The word “snare” is in the Greek Bible “scandal”…

GAL 5:11 Now I, brethren, if I am still heralding circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? Consequently the snare (scandal) of the cross of Christ has been nullified.

Jim Coram wrote about THE SNARE OF THE CROSS here:

I think it’s a scandal to most folks (the cross) because all the work is done for you. They so desperately want to have a role in their salvation… but no… it is the work of God. No one can boast.
Salvation is a gift. Faith is a gift. God operates in you to do good. All is out of, through and for God. Scandalous.

The circumcision boys (“some came from James”) don’t like this “cross” business. That want a list of rules YOU MUST DO… to make them happy. If Paul were preaching THE LIST, they’d be happy.

Freewillers love THE LIST.
Not Paul. He said the law was given that sin might increase. (Romans 5)

The scandal people are sure that sin is a HUGE problem. They don’t know, God dealt with sin, in Christ’s cross. Christ died for all. He died to save sinners. — it’s a scandal. Why? Because His death was efficacious. Nothing else is needed. The whole future comes out of the work on the cross.

Grace to you.

PLAIN LANGUAGE VS INFERENCE — Stacy says that ALL does not mean ALL.

 @{KISStheSON}  You have an amazing ability to search around and find inference after inference to discount the plain statements in God’s word regarding what was accomplished on the cross.
Some things may be true during the eons, but when the eons are complete, things are different.
It was once true that the Earth was covered with water. But it is no longer true.
It was once true that Jonah was in the belly of the whale “forever” but it is no longer true.
So, in one sense the unbeliever is not found “in Christ”… and thus will not share an allotment of eonian life, ruling and reigning with Christ during the final eons of time.
But in another sense Christ is the firstborn of creation, and all are created in Him. (And thus, “all are in Christ”.) — See Colossians 1:16.
And it is this same ALL. which are created in Him, which will be reconciled to him (Colossians 1:16 – all created in Him) — (Colossians 1:20 — all reconciled to Him.)
JUST 4 LITTLE VERSES SEPARATE ONE “ALL” FROM ANOTHER “ALL”… IT’S THE SAME “ALL”.
Here’s what I get from you…All does not mean all.
Salvation does not mean salvation.
Reconciliation does not mean reconciliation.
“IN” does not mean “IN”.
Justification does not mean justification .
Grace does not mean grace.
But you better believe… the bad news means bad news.
Sheep and the goats — you better believe it!!!Lake of fire– look out, you better believe it too!!!2nd death — no getting ’round that one, too late and too bad!!!You INFER from the bad new that the GOOD NEWS is not all that good.
Not the other way around.
You infer that the accomplishments (wages?) of sin far outweigh the accomplishments of the cross.
You infer that the cross has very little effect universally or practically.
You infer that God cannot save all because that would violate the child’s precious little “freewill”.
You infer that God would like to save all mankind, but his arm is too short. But man’s arm (freewill?) is mighty and strong.
“For even as in Adam, all die, so in Christ shall all be vivified.” (I COR 15:22)

THEN COMES THE END, Stacy thinks this refers to the tribulation. I say no.

 @{KISStheSON}  Stacy, listen, in I COR 15:20-28… “the end” to which he is referring… is THE END of the making alive process… in verse 22 Paul says EVEN AS in Adam, all die, so in Christ shall all be made alive… Verse 20 kicks off the topic by saying that Christ is the firstfruit of those who are reposing.
The word FIRSTFRUIT is a farming metaphor… it indicates how the rest of the crop will turn out. So if the firstfruit is good, the rest of the crop will be good.
The whole section (verses 20 through 28) is about vivification.. making all alive beyond the reach of death.
So, there are three steps (three orders) in this process.
1. Christ, the firstfruit.
2. Those who are Christ’s at His presence.
– – but that doesn’t cover ALL. So the next order is…3. THE END of the process of making all alive beyond the reach of death.
“The end” is the grand, final step… in which all are made alive in Christ.
THE CONTEXT is all about this.
“Then comes the end”– the end of what? ANSWER: The end of the process of which Christ is the firstfruit. You see, if all are not made alive in Christ, then firstfruit is misleading. And the vast majority of the crop is a disaster.”THE END” is so powerful, so sweet, so complete, that Christ gives up His kingdom (V. 24)– His reign is no longer needed. His work is now complete.
The phrase here (the end) does not refer to the tribulation, no, it is far beyond that.
“Then comes the end”… should be a glorious thought in our minds… we should quote those four words with great JOY and PEACE… finally, then comes the end, when He gives up His kingdom, abolishes rule, authority and power, — and finally he abolished DEATH (the last enemy) and if death is abolished, of course verse 22 can come true.

Conversely: if all are not made alive in Christ, then death is not abolished. And God cannot be all in all. Instead, He will be all in those who are left.

Again… the phrase THEN COMES THE END… must be viewed in the context of verses 20-28… the subject: all dying in Adam and all being made alive in Christ.
———
AND NOW FOR YOUR VIEWING PLEASURE, LET’S HEAR FROM OUR APOSTLE ON THIS MATTER:
— I CORINTHIANS 15 VERSES 20 THROUGH 28 —
Concordant Literal New Testament
20 (Yet now Christ has been roused from among the dead, the Firstfruit of those who are reposing.
21 For since, in fact, through a man came death, through a Man, also, comes the resurrection of the dead.
22 For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified.
23 Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ’s in His presence;
24 thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power.
25 For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy is being abolished: death.
27 For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him.
28 Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all.)

Not my will, but thy will be done

I CAME INTO THE WAY believing in the typical “freewill” thing offered in most evangelical churches.
Imagine my surprise upon discovering verses in the Bible saying strange and puzzling things like “it is not of him that willeth”… or “God hardened Pharaoh’s heart”… or “God locks up all together in stubbornness.” … or “God gave it to them to turn against Him.” … etc.
One verse of scripture after another revealed to me, that the writers of the Bible were not “freewill evangelicals” like I was–and all my friends were. No freewill evangelical would use such language. And in fact, all the sermons I heard in my nearly 20 years of going to church strangely avoided any and all such passages of Holy Writ. But why? I’m convinced now that those preachers were gutless and deceived themselves.
They avoided those verses BECAUSE it did not fit into their worldview.
They needed a “freewill” teaching because it was just too hard to suggest that the punishment of the wicked (eternal) punishment was all God’s doing — instead let’s blame man’s ultimate fate on man’s freewill decision.
Neat huh? A clean way to scapegoat the poor sucker for choosing his own endless fate.

—
NO ONE CAN READ the story of Jonah and come away thinking the “freewill” teaching amounts to much. Jonah did not go to Nineveh of his own “freewill”. God had to “coax” him along — with a GREAT STORM, A GREAT FISH, BEING TOSSED OVERBOARD, SITTING IN THE BELLY OF THE GREAT FISH FOR 3 DAYS, — and the freewiller says “God will never ‘force” you to do anything. HA.
God FORCED ALL THOSE THINGS onto Jonah, and the boy finally went to Nineveh and preached.
Again, the freewiller suggests God will not “force” himself or His will on anyone. Well, God forced His will on Christ… remember Christ said “Not my will be done, but thine.” Sounds like someone got His way and someone else did not.
Regarding the battle of the wills, “God wills to save all mankind”. So says Paul in his letter to Timothy. I’m glad God gets His will.

Stacy says all is not of God, some things are “of the devil” I said…

WHY CAN’T BOTH BE TRUE?
You’re being immature — like a child stuck on literal expressions and not knowing that there are figurative expressions too. Not knowing there is a bigger thing going on here — more than just what is apparent to the eye.
In one sense — the lusts of the flesh and the pride of life are indeed “of the devil”. And will have appropriate influential factors and consequences.
But if one takes a step back to see the larger picture of God’s eonian purpose… ALL IS OF GOD. And you can’t deny that “all is of God” is revealed in the Bible more than once.
Yes, Adam sinned… but “where sin increases grace superexceeds.” (See Romans 5:20)
Yes, Judas sinned… but without Judas’ role, we would not have a risen savior.
Yes, Joseph’s brothers sold him into slavery… but that terrible act saved them from the famine years later.
None of it makes sense unless you consider that God’s purpose is an eonian purpose.

Romans 5 talks not only about justifying each and every individual, but also “life’s justifying”

Romans 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just award for all mankind for life’s justifying.

In a relative sense, the pharisees were “of their father, the devil”
In an absolute sense… “God is operating all things after the council of His will.” — Ephesians 1:11.

You are right, some things are “not of God”… as viewed during these times… but the eons will come to an end, then all will be revealed. Then we will see that indeed “all, really is of God.”

——
https://goodnewsaboutgod.com/studies/spiritual/home_study/if_all_of_god.htm

THE CORE MESSAGE OF THE WHOLE BIBLE IS THIS: ALL IS OF GOD.

Many don’t see this. But it’s true nonetheless. All is of God.
Creation — all is of God.
Good — all is of God.
Evil — all is of God.
Redemption — all is of God.
Human destiny — all is of God.
God’s purpose in the eons of time — all is of God.
The humiliation, death and resurrection of His beloved Son — all is of God.
The day, the night, the winds, the storm, the dawn, the work, the rest — all is of God.
Faith — all is of God.
The faith of Christ — all is of God.

It seems to me, that THIS is the ultimate faith — to believe that all is of God.
It’s so hard — to have our own personal trials and troubles and still believe all is of God.
It’s so hard to feel that God has deserted you… rejection, the death of a loved one, locked alone in a room or prison cell, even Jesus, before the cross, said “Why hast Thou forsaken me.” All is of God.

ISA 45:7 says God creates good as well as evil. But it’s so hard to fathom.
II COR 5:18 says All is of God. But it’s tough to not take all the chaos and confusion personally.
ROM 11:36 says All is out of, through and for God. — Christ knew this. And it’s a miracle that we be granted the faith to believe it as well.

Those who gossip don’t seem to know this, that all is of God.
Those who strut around in their own self-righteousness don’t seem to know this, that all is of God.
But, to grasp this core truth from the scriptures is to lay hold on peace really.

God is operating all things after the council of His own will, so says EPH 1:11.
To think that God has lost control… or that God is in partial control… is a frightful thought.
We long for peace, and the greatest peace comes from knowing that all, yes all, is of God.
Romans 11:36: For out of Him and through Him and for Him is all. — and after penning those powerful words… Paul could not help himself… he added: “to Him be the glory for the eons! Amen!”

—
EARLIER I posted some notes entitled ALL IS OF GOD.
Regarding Romans 11:36.
Imagine my surprise to go back just a few verses to see the context of verse 36… looky here…

33 O, the depth of the riches and the wisdom and the knowledge of God! How inscrutable are His judgments, and untraceable His ways!
34 For, who knew the mind of the Lord? or, who became His adviser?
35 or, who gives to Him first, and it will be repaid him?
36 seeing that out of Him and through Him and for Him is all: to Him be the glory for the eons! Amen!

Even Paul says this is DEEP.

The story of Jonah is not a story of “freewill”.

I CAME INTO THE WAY believing in the typical “freewill” thing offered in most evangelical churches.
Imagine my surprise upon discovering verses in the Bible saying strange and puzzling things like “it is not of him that willeth”… or “God hardened Pharaoh’s heart”… or “God locks up all together in stubbornness.” … or “God gave it to them to turn against Him.” … etc.
One verse of scripture after another revealed to me, that the writers of the Bible were not “freewill evangelicals” like I was–and all my friends were. No freewill evangelical would use such language. And in fact, all the sermons I heard in my nearly 20 years of going to church strangely avoided any and all such passages of Holy Writ. But why? I’m convinced now that those preachers were gutless and deceived themselves.
They avoided those verses BECAUSE it did not fit into their worldview.
They needed a “freewill” teaching because it was just too hard to suggest that the punishment of the wicked (eternal) punishment was all God’s doing — instead let’s blame man’s ultimate fate on man’s freewill decision.
Neat huh? A clean way to scapegoat the poor sucker for choosing his own endless fate.

—
NO ONE CAN READ the story of Jonah and come away thinking the “freewill” teaching amounts to much. Jonah did not go to Nineveh of his own “freewill”. God had to “coax” him along — with a GREAT STORM, A GREAT FISH, BEING TOSSED OVERBOARD, SITTING IN THE BELLY OF THE GREAT FISH FOR 3 DAYS, — and the freewiller says “God will never ‘force” you to do anything. HA.
God FORCED ALL THOSE THINGS onto Jonah, and the boy finally went to Nineveh and preached.
Again, the freewiller suggests God will not “force” himself or His will on anyone. Well, God forced His will on Christ… remember Christ said “Not my will be done, but thine.” Sounds like someone got His way and someone else did not.
Regarding the battle of the wills, “God wills to save all mankind”. So says Paul in his letter to Timothy. I’m glad God gets His will.

DEATH IS A RETURN

Death is the wages of sin.
Death is not another form of life.
Death is the absence of life.
The word in the Bible most associated with “death” is “return”.
The spirit returns to God at death.
The body returns to dust.
The soul returns to the unseen.
Your question (“…if all men ARE saved, why does your god cast even ONE into the lake of fire?”) is one of distraction.
Christ died to save all.
But not everyone comes into salvation all at once. Salvation, in all that it means, must include salvation from death.
Yet, even the saved, at the moment, enter the death state. Peter, James, John, Paul… all dead.
So…If Peter, James, John, and Paul are “saved” why did they have to die? That is the essence of your question. All (or should I say ‘most’) can expect to enter into the first death. Many will enter into the second death. But not to worry… death is death. And the second death is not a challenge to God’s saving work in the cross of Christ.
Death (all death-including the 2nd death) is the last enemy God abolishes. The other enemies listed in the passage under discussion (I COR 15:20-28) are rule, authority and power.

After all… I COR 15:26’s prophetic word that death will be undone… is actually preceded by I COR 15:22 — For even as in Adam, all are dying, thus also in Christ shall all be vivified.

Do not think that John’s Book of Revelation is the final prophetic word on God’s eonian purpose. I COR 15:20-28 is far greater in scope than the book of Revelation.
When John closes the book of Revelation, rule, authority and power– and death— are still present. But Paul (In I COR 15:20-28) reveals to us a time beyond what John sees. A time when even Christ’s reign will end. And death, the last enemy is abolished.
Stacy, this is good news.

YOU SAID:
“The soul does not RETURN to the unseen…”

MY REPLY:
(Psa.9:17 and Acts 2:27,31)
GOD’S WORD SAYS…. “The wicked do turn back to Sheol (UNSEEN)…” –Psa.9:17

GOD’S WORD SAYS… “For Thou wilt not be forsaking my soul in the unseen…” ACTS 2:27

GOD’S WORD SAYS… “concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that He was neither forsaken in the unseen…” ACTS 2:31

AND FINALLY: FROM JOB:
For I know that Thou wilt return me to death. (Job 30:23 AV).
ETC.
SO, I say again, the word RETURN is the one word most associated with the idea of death… in the bible.

THE DEAD ARE DEAD. They are not still alive. Death is the opposite of life.
and according to I COR: 15:24-26… death is the last enemy to be abolished, therefore, all will be made alive… because death is abolished. And THEN God will be all in all.

GOD’S ACCOMPLISHMENTS IN CHRIST’S CROSS WILL BRING AN END TO THE RULE OF CHRIST.

I know it’s rather common in Christian circles to talk about an end to the rule of satan. And sin. But what about an end to the rule of Christ? After all, it is foretold in I COR 15:24-25 — That Christ will one day give up His kingdom. And will rule UNTIL He places all His enemies under His feet.
(NOTE: He will reign UNTIL — puts a limit on “He will reign forever and ever”..keep reading).
I have ask many times — what did Christ achieve on the cross? And many times I’m assured by so many Christians that the best Christ could achieve was to give man a POTENTIAL salvation, due to the myth that God will not violate man’s so-called “freewill”.
Yes, they say, God made salvation “possible” — but something else makes it actual. And what is that something else??? Why, it’s man’s freewill decision to get with the program, don’t cha know.
And again, I’m less than impressed.
In an earlier post, I asked WHAT EXACTLY DID CHRIST ACCOMPLISH WITH HIS DEATH AND RESURRECTION?
SALVATION?
RECONCILIATION?
JUSTIFICATION?
VIVIFICATION?
PEACE WITH GOD?
ETC.
But can’t we say that the greatest accomplishment of Christ’s work on the cross is to rid the universe of the need of RULE, AUTHORITY, AND POWER — including the rule, authority and power of Christ?
Listen, as long as RULE is needed, it means there is something or someone that needs to be RULED over? It means there is something not quite right in God’s creation. But IF God can save all, reconcile all, justify all, vivify all, and more… then RULE itself is not needed and Christ can give up the Kingdom to His God and Father. And Christ can nullify all sovereignty, all power and all authority.
The abolition of the rule of Christ is the final step toward God becoming all in all.
I COR 15:20-28 are 8 little verses that contain the largest message of all the scripture…. with the last 3 words the largest words of all: that God will not become all in some… and not become some in all… and not all in all who are left… but indeed… THAT GOD MAY BECOME ALL IN ALL.

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THE END OF THE RULE OF CHRIST (I COR 15:20-28)
24 thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be GIVING UP THE KINGDOM to His God and Father, whenever He should be NULLIFYING all SOVEREIGNTY and all AUTHORITY and POWER.
25 For He must be reigning UNTIL He should be placing all His enemies under His feet.

……..
DEATH, THE WAGES OF SIN ABOLISHED
26 The last enemy is being abolished: death.
27 For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him.
…
GOD BECOMES ALL – – IN ALL.
28 Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all.)

Now that’s quite an accomplishment.

The freewill teaching is everywhere in evangelical churches

I CAME INTO THE WAY believing in the typical “freewill” thing offered in most evangelical churches.
Imagine my surprise upon discovering verses in the Bible saying strange and puzzling things like “it is not of him that willeth”… or “God hardened Pharaoh’s heart”… or “God locks up all together in stubbornness.” … or “God gave it to them to turn against Him.” … etc.
One verse of scripture after another revealed to me, that the writers of the Bible were not “freewill evangelicals” like I was–and all my friends were. No freewill evangelical would use such language. And in fact, all the sermons I heard in my nearly 20 years of going to church strangely avoided any and all such passages of Holy Writ. But why? I’m convinced now that those preachers were gutless and deceived themselves.
They avoided those verses BECAUSE it did not fit into their worldview.
The needed a “freewill” teaching because it was just too hard to suggest that the punishment of the wicked (eternal) punishment was all God’s doing — instead let’s blame man’s ultimate fate on man’s freewill decision.
Neat huh? A clean way to scapegoat the poor sucker for choosing his own endless fate.
Luckily, about the same time I started taking a serious look at those strange “non-freewill” verses, I also discovered that the word ETERNAL, as in “eternal punishment” was not really in the Bible.
It turns out the word ETERNAL was invented by John Wycliffe because he made the very first English Bible and all he had was a Latin Bible to work with. Well, when Wycliffe got to the Latin word ETERNAUM, he just invented a new English word ETERNAL… not knowing that ETERNAUM was a synonym for WORLD.
Well, you can have the END OF THE WORLD, but somehow you cannot have the END OF ETERNAL… Anyway, the whole thing is a mess.
But, if you can find a literal translation of the Bible, you’ll see that both rewards and punishments are not ETERNAL but somewhat limited in scope and duration. And that helps with the “freewill” problem.
You see, it’s rather obvious that the writers of the Bible were not freewill evangelicals. And so, if God doesn’t operate by man’s freewill, instead God operates all things after the council of His own will (See EPH 1:11) then, if God makes some vessels for honor and some for dishonor (See Romans 9) then we’ll just have to trust that God knows what He is doing when God decides that “Not for all is the faith” (See 2 Thessalonians 3:2).
After all, God is the creator of all, and the savior of all. (I TIM 4:10)
Freewill is really a nasty teaching, very akin to the SELF-HELP teaching that is so popular today. It is very focused on man and not on God and his operations and especially not focused on what was accomplished on the cross.
You see, Christ died for sin. And Christ died for all. And His achievement on the cross is not dependent on anything other than whether or not God accepted the sacrifice of His Son. And we believe God did accept that offering. And nothing else is needed.
Believers believe this. And non-believers don’t. But will their unbelief nullify God’s work in Christ’s cross? Nope. Paul says as much.
How will God save the non-believer? Well, it’s God’s business really. But if you want to do a study on the TIME words of the bible (AION and OLAM) prepare to have your mind blown. Why? Because your concept of time is not the same as God’s concept of time.
How will God save the non-believer? Consider Jonah. He did not go down to Nineveh of his own “freewill”… no sir ree… He was running the other way. They tossed him off the boat and he was swallowed by a big fish… and guess how long he was in the belly of the fish? One passage says he was there “forever”. Another passage says 3 days and 3 nights. God saved him inspite of his “freewill” to run away. God saved him and Nineveh too… not due to his correct “freewill” decision but inspite of it. Jonah– forced? or obey out of “freewill”?
Also consider Jacob’s brothers. Their very act (sin) of selling him into slavery resulted in their salvation later in the famine years.
Don’t be fooled by this freewill business, it’s just a doctrine invented to get God off the hook for the silly notion of “endless torment” due to John Wycliffe’s boo boo in translation the Bible into English.
God is the savior of all. How he’s going to pull it off, requires some study, and trust that He IS the savior of all.
I can share what I’ve discovered. Let me know.
Grace to you.
Linwood