HE SAID THE LAKE OF FIRE IS FINAL.

 

Some time ago, I got into a little dust up over who is the savior, God, or man? with a fellow named Robert Brake.

Robert believes that man saves himself by his own actions and choices. I believe God is the savior. I started out, as I recall, by asking Robert if I TIM 4:10 is a “faithful saying” or not? The conversation was longer, but I did capture some of it… and pasted it in below.

Let me know what you think.

Enjoy:

HE SAID THE LAKE OF FIRE IS FINAL.

• Final?
• Christ, the redeemer’s actions are more final than that.
• You were saved, when he died for you… long before you BELIEVED. AND one day, every knee will bow, and every tongue will confess… and no one can confess, except by holy spirit… so says St. Paul.

5:45 PM

• Robert Brake sent the following messages at 5:52 PM

According to your argument people are wasting their time trying to be saved as they are guaranteed to be saved no matter what they do.

Those names not written in the book of life will not be saved

5:53 PM

• linwood austin sent the following messages at 7:22 PM

You said… “trying to be saved”…. ???? Are you saying you are saved by what you do? If that’s the case, then, you’re not saved by His death and Resurrection. And if you’re not saved by His death and resurrection, then He died in vain. If He did NOT save us when He died to save us, why believe He died to save us… If you’re saved by what you “TRY” to do… then you must indeed save yourself… and thus, God is not your saviour, you are. See I TIM 4:10… We rely on the living God, who is the saviour of all man, especially of believers. (Not “exclusively” of believers… but “especially” … The word “especially” and the word “exclusively” are not the same thing.

• You are not saved “by what you do” but by what He did.

7:23 PM

• Robert Brake sent the following messages at 7:25 PM

As John 3:3 states: John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Repentance and being baptized by full submersion in water in the name of Jesus Christ is the washing away of sins by water and the blood of Jesus. It is dying in Jesus Christ. It is also the only way to receive the Holy Spirit which is being reborn in the Spirit of Christ To be born again one must first die in Christ. Baptism in water is dying in Christ: Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. When you receive the gift of the Holy Ghost(Spirit) then you are born again. Baptism with full submersion in water unto remission of sins is an absolute requirement. Even the Lord Jesus Christ was baptized by John the Baptist. Did he really need to be? He was the sacrificial lamb. The lamb was brought to the priest and washed. The baptism of Jesus was the washing of the sacrifice.

According to you everyone is saved, the Bible says otherwise.

7:26 PM

• linwood austin sent the following messages at 7:28 PM

I Tim 2:4- God wills all to be saved and come to a knowledge of truth. Eph 1:11- God works all after the council of His will.

• Phil 2:9-11- Every tongue shall confess Jesus is Lord. I Cor 12:3- Cannot confess except by Holy Spirit.

7:30 PM

• Robert Brake sent the following messages at 7:31 PM

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Those cast into the lake of fire are gone forever, they are not saved.

7:32 PM

• linwood austin sent the following message at 7:47 PM

Robert, The reason this is an important discussion is this… We are talking about the accomplishments of God, in the death and Resurrection of Christ. I’m saying what was achieved on the cross was vast. You seem to be saying, it has limits. YES… or NO… Did he died to save all?

7:47 PM

• Robert Brake sent the following message at 7:49 PM

Not all can be saved. Those names not in the book of life are beyond redemption and that is why they are not in the “Book of Life”

7:49 PM

• linwood austin sent the following messages at 7:49 PM

Yes… or No… Did He die to save all?

• Yes?
• No?

7:51 PM

• Robert Brake sent the following message at 7:52 PM

Your logic indicates that people can do whatever they want to whoever they want whenever they want because they are already “saved”.

7:52 PM

• linwood austin sent the following messages at 7:53 PM

Yes or No? did he die to save all?

• Yes?
• No?

7:54 PM

• Robert Brake sent the following message at 7:55 PM

He died to save those that could be saved and not all can. God knew that before creation.

7:55 PM

• linwood austin sent the following messages at 7:56 PM

So, you’re saying NO, he did not die to save all.

• 1 Timothy 1:15 Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners–of whom I am the worst.
• He did not come into the world to save a few sinners.
• He came to save sinners. Even the worst.
• It’s a TRUSTWORTHY saying
• Do you trust this saying?
• I trust this TRUSTWORTHY saying.

7:59 PM

• Robert Brake sent the following message at 8:00 PM

You do not understand God’s Word and twist it to mean what you want not what it really is.

8:00 PM

• linwood austin sent the following messages at 8:00 PM

Here is a trustworthy saying

• Here is a trustworthy saying
• Here is a trustworthy saying
• Christ came into the world to save.
• Not to do a halfass job of it.

8:01 PM

• Robert Brake sent the following message at 8:01 PM

Repeat that all you want but it will not give you understanding

8:01 PM

• linwood austin sent the following messages at 8:02 PM

Did you know that the word AION shows up in the new testament 193 times?

• It’s a TIME word
• If it shows up that many times, don’t you think we should study to see what this TIME word really means?
• Several times the bible has this phrase: THE END OF THE AION
• and
• THE END OF THE AIONS
• If the AIONS come to an end, as the bible says… Heb 9:26 and Matt 13:39… then the word MUST have LIMITS… and in it has a BEGINING and an END.

8:08 PM

• Robert Brake sent the following messages at 8:08 PM

You don’t want the Word of God, you only want your version of it. You version allows evil back into the world. It allows Satan and death back into the world

Tell me, why would God allow that?

8:09 PM

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light and create darkness, I bring … … I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. … I am the giver of light and the maker of the dark; causing blessing, and sending …

• GOD CREATED EVIL
• Evil is not out of his control

8:10 PM

• Robert Brake sent the following message at 8:10 PM

You don’t know what you are talking about so this conversation is over.

8:10 PM

• linwood austin sent the following messages at 8:10 PM

Death, the last enemy will be abolished. See I Cor 15: 25

• death is the wages of sin
• It will be abolished

8:11 PM

• Robert Brake sent the following messages at 8:12 PM

Death is tossed into the lake of fire. All things tossed into the lake of fire are destroyed forever and that includes those name not written in the book of life

You have no understanding of the second death

8:12 PM

• linwood austin sent the following messages at 8:13 PM

This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

• Apparently you don’t believe this is a FAITHFUL SAYING… cause you don’t accept it.
• I TIM… 4 VERSE 9 AND 10

Robert.. you’ll love this chart…

 

…you can enlarge it.. if you click on it… I think… if not, you can find this calendar over at

http://www.concordant.org just go there and search for “divine calendar”.  They have two of them.

——————————————-

TONY FROM

The Savoiur of All Fellowship, had this to say about Robert’s point of view:

——————————————

If it were me, and I know you’ve touched on this, is I would tell him that those not in the book of life will in fact go into death again.

But we are assured that that death will one day be abolished.
The apostle Paul saw way beyond John’s Revelation.
In Revelation Christ is still reigning, there are kings on the new earth, there are sovereignties, authorities and power and death.
In 1 Corinthians 15:22-28, Paul sees beyond Revelation when he prophetically states that Christ will quit reigning, all sovereignty, authority and power will be annulled and death abolished and THEN God will be All in all, not All in some.

They are in that death only for an “ever” and another “ever” commonly referred to as “for ever and ever.” Literally, this is “for the eons OF the eons. Since the Bible tells us all the eons end, both individually and collectively, the second death cannot possibly be eternal. And if it were eternal, how could God be All in all?

 

 

THE RODD MAN DEBATE

linwood austin 9:03 PM
• You awake?

linwood austin 9:06 PM
You mentioned “our purpose” in your reply to our friendly neighborhood Atheist Republic. I wrote a 3 pages essay about God’s purpose. I’ll attach it here. Give me your feedback. Linwood
SEE THIS: God’s Eternal Purpose VS God’s Eonian Purpose

• • Rodd Mann sent the following message at 11:31 PM
Rodd Mann 11:31 PM

• I read it. Before I comment, please tell me why you have sent this to me, and why it matters to you…~r

• Jun 4 linwood austin sent the following messages at 5:42 AM
• Well, you were bold enough to “tell em what for” on Atheist Republic, therefore I thought you might enjoy my little rank, as I have been a bible student, some years past. No agenda… just thought you might enjoy it.

linwood austin 11:57 AM
• I’m back, I was out for a while.

• Rodd Mann sent the following message at 12:11 PM
• Going back to the Old Testament the Hebrew word ‘yaas’, and Greek ‘boule’ are translated into the English word “purpose.” The root of the Hebrew means giving counsel, deliberating, determining or purposing. Most refer to God’s “purpose,” but one to a person’s heart. Proverbs 19:21, 20:5, Isaiah 46:10-11, Jeremiah 32:19, Psalm 33:11, Isaiah 46:10. What God intends he purposes and plans, as he pleases; this is what determines what transpires throughout history. Nothing stands in His way. Now moving into the New Testament (Epheisans 1:9-11), Paul says God brings all things under Christ in conformity with the purpose of his will. We are part of God’s divine purpose since time began (Romans 8:28-29 ). So as we align and conform to the purposes of God we live a life pleasing to Him and are in lockstep with what He is doing over time, where things are going, and what will be the final scene at the end of this age. You wrote to me, “So, now we must ask “What is God’s purpose?” – Now that we know it’s an eonian purpose, we can ask with the real hope of getting an answer. God’s purpose is to be all… in… all. (I Cor 15:28).” I agree with you. I view God’s “purpose” for my life to be multi-faceted based upon the Scriptures taken together; a process by which we move from death unto life:

1. Rebellion and sin, self on the throne, purposed by pride, lust, the world and the devil…

2. Spiritual awareness as the Holy Spirit invades our heart, mind and spirit…

3. Repentance for now we see sin as God sees sin, leading to death and destruction…

4. Salvation by grace through faith in the provision God made to put away sin…

5. Sanctification as we are changed from glory to glory, learning of the character of God through reading the Word, prayer, the fellowship of the saints and drawing nearer to Him…

6. Crucifying our flesh and allowing the will of God to replace our own will…

7. Used by God to accomplish His purposes while we remain in the world…

8. Death of the body, life everlasting with the Lord in a new body, love, peace, joy and the absence of sin dwelling with our Creator.

• linwood austin sent the following message at 4:58 PM
• wow.. .love it.. can we… we’ll talk some more later. Grace to you, brother. Linwood

• Rodd Mann sent the following message at 5:12 PM
• Sure

• linwood austin sent the following message at 6:56 PM
• Rodd, I am having difficulty finding a minister who will give me a straight answer. I wonder if you would drop me a line to give me your further thoughts on this matter…I feel this question is very important. are we saved by God’s grace– or by OUR faith in God’s grace?
• Rodd Mann sent the following messages at 7:42 PM

• God’s grace is the gift of salvation that He provides through our faith. The gift is the Son, on the Cross, dying for the sins of the world. But just as God will not force us to love Him — or it would not be love — He will not force us to accept His gift. Our works pale in comparison to His holy requirements (‘filthy rags’), Jesus said we must be perfect to enter heaven. The only way that could be achieved is through the finished work of Christ on the Cross. “IT IS FINISHED1”
• • that is salvation Linwood; sanctification is an entirely different matter…~r

• linwood austin sent the following message at 9:26 PM

• Rodd, is grace the underserved favor of God? I think you’re saying we must deserve it. If that be the case, then we are not saved by grace, but by our actions. Hmmm. Just thinking. Linwood

• Rodd Mann sent the following message at 9:44 PM

• When you think of grace think of a gift from a loving parent. Remember the prodigal son? When he returned a nice robe, a ring, and the BBQ of the fattened calf were all given to him. Did he deserve it? Not at all. This was an act of love. Our sin actually pays compensation. The wages are death. That is what we deserve. But love conquers all.
• linwood austin sent the following message at 10:18 PM
• Does God save anyone who does not deserved to be saved?
• Rodd Mann sent the following message at 10:33 PM

Rodd Mann 10:33 PM
• God will save anyone who will confess with their mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in their heart that God raised him from the dead, they will be saved. For it is with the heart that we believe and are justified, and it is with our mouth that we confess and are saved. Not one of us deserves such a great salvation; not one has earned it.
• linwood austin sent the following message at 10:34 PM

linwood austin 10:34 PM
• So, it’s not God who saves you, but you save yourself, by confessing and believing, am I getting this right?
• Rodd Mann sent the following message at 10:50 PM

• It is God who has provided the means, the path to salvation. It is each of us who choose to accept or reject

• linwood austin sent the following messages at 10:53 PM

linwood austin 10:53 PM
• So, we save ourself by our actions, right?
•

linwood austin 10:54 PM
• So, God does not save, but merely provide the path, right? You save yourself by “choosing” the path, right?
• Jun 5

linwood austin 6:36 AM
I wrote this essay about grace, I think in 1994.
“Saved by grace or saved our faith in grace.”

• • Rodd Mann sent the following messages at 4:54 PM

Rodd Mann 4:54 PM
• Since salvation is the finished work of Christ on the Cross and we can be imputed the righteousness of our Lord simply by believing is too simple for most people.
Rodd Mann 4:55 PM
• The Abrahamic religions, two of them anyway, just as most religion, requires working to justify our own righteousness before God. Only Christianity puts forth the notion we are dead in our sins and our righteousness falls so far short of divine holiness that it is impossible to justify ourselves before God.
• • The Gospel is so simple a child can understand it. “In the beginning God.” “Saved by grace through faith.” Put you hope and trust in the Lord and draw near to Him.
• • When Adam and Eve rebelled they were separated. God does not force His love on anyone who doesn’t reciprocate. This is not illogical nor unreasonable.

Rodd Mann 4:58 PM
• Likewise God will put away your sin unless you have determined in your heart God is not going to be a part of your life. Everyone knows God exists, and only a foolish person strives to deny that fact; generally because they want to be captain of their own destiny.

Rodd Mann 4:59 PM
• But not everyone hears the Gospel. What of those who never get the chance to choose. In this we see again the hubris of human existence. The thief on the cross never heard the Gospel by any man but was saved. Paul the Apostle was not conveyed as a result of the erudite teaching of Gamileo or any other rabbi or scholar.
• • Jesus preached the Gospel to those who had lived and died prior to His resurrection. Everyone will have their opportunity to say “yea” or “nay” to God’s love and being with Him through eternity.

Rodd Mann 5:02 PM
• But we need not parse it any further than the simplicity that is Christ. We can add nothing to our salvation, and if we are genuine we will see how utterly deceitful and desperately wicked is our own heart. And like the man in the Temple Jesus watched looking down and beating his chest, saying, “forgive me Lord I am a sinner, ” each of us will either be like the Pharisee and justify ourselves and reject God, or we will come to understand that God was telling us the truth in the Word. We need Christ. He is all sufficient. Faith plus nothing equals salvation.
• linwood austin sent the following message at 5:51 PM
• Yes, or no, did Christ die to save all? And Yes or no, did he succeed in saving all when He died to save all?
• Rodd Mann sent the following message at 8:12 PM
• Who is the Lord referring to when He said, “…depart from me you workers of iniquity, I never knew you.”
• linwood austin sent the following message at 8:27 PM
linwood austin 8:27 PM
• Rodd, “I never knew you” must be a figure of speech, or limited in scope, why, Because of Colossians 1:16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
• Rodd Mann sent the following message at 8:31 PM
• No. There are no “figures of speech.” And Jesus spoke more of hell than any other subject. Wheat and tares. Sheep and goats. Gnashing of teeth. So enter in through the straight gate and take the narrow path. If you go the way of most people you are headed for eternal separation from God.
• linwood austin sent the following messages at 8:33 PM

linwood austin 8:33 PM
• A wheat and a tare is a figure of speech. Sheep and goat if a figure of speech.
•

linwood austin 8:35 PM
• if=is
linwood austin 8:36 PM
• col 1:16… goes to verse 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

linwood austin 8:40 PM
• ——– you may be LIKE a sheep, or a goat… but you are not literally a sheep or goat… it’s a figure of speech.
• • I Tim 4:10.. God is the savior of all.
• Rodd Mann sent the following messages at 9:11 PM

Rodd Mann 9:11 PM
• Your “all roads lead to heaven” thesis is Scripturally unsound. The Word clearly teaches heaven and hell, some saved, most damned for eternity
• • Now I understand your problem with “most ministers.” You should listen to them rather than touting false doctrines Linwood.
• linwood austin sent the following messages at 9:14 PM

linwood austin 9:14 PM
• Not “all roads lead to heaven”… but Christ died for all, and we must believe for it is true.
• • Its’ not that we Must believe” to make it true… we must believe for it is true.
•

linwood austin 9:16 PM
• Christ died to save sinners. Not to give sinners a chance… but to save them.
• Rodd Mann sent the following message at 9:16 PM

Rodd Mann 9:16 PM
• LOL. We are done here Linwood.
• linwood austin sent the following messages at 9:17 PM

linwood austin 9:17 PM
• Salvation is the work of God, not a “chance” thing.
• Thursday

linwood austin 3:49 PM
• Grace To You. 1 Corinthians 1:3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ! 2 Corinthians 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ! Galatians 1:3 Grace to you, and peace from God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, Ephesians 1:2 Grace to you, and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ! Philippians 1:2 Grace to you, and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. Colossians 1:2 …to the saints in Colossae, and to the faithful brethren in Christ: Grace to you, and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ! Of all the phrases and sayings you’ll hear in today’s Churchianity, you’ll never hear the common use of the term “Grace To You”. Why? Paul used the phrase “grace” all the time. It’s all over his letters to the churches and the brethren. As shown above, he often opened his letters with the phrase “grace to you”. I contend that you don’t hear such language in churches today because it’s too radical. It goes against everything typical churches stand for. The big idea behind “grace” is a favor granted to someone who doesn’t deserve it. The big idea behind the core messages from typical churches is that you’d better change your life, so that you can deserve the favor of God. In other words, they want you involved in “works” and “law”. Not grace. From my own experience, if you say this phrase to someone (“grace to you”) it catches them quite off guard. Even brothers and sisters in Christ. But I’m sure the idea of saying “grace to you” won’t catch on any time soon. It might ruin their gig. The gig of preaching some version of the “works” gospel. God’s message of Grace is ultimately wrapped up in what Christ accomplished on the cross. He died for all on the cross. And his death was not for naught. Yes, works are important to Peter, James and John. Why? Because “The Gospel Of the Circumcision” was given to them to preach to Israel. But Paul’s message of GRACE is different. It’s THE message to be delivered to the gentiles. It’s radical. And it generally upsets those of a mindset to preach works. To see how radically different it is, consider what happened when Paul and Peter almost got into a fistfight about the matter, when Peter came to visit the brethren at Antioch. The first two chapters of Galatians recounts “the big fight”. To this day, Paul is more or less, hated and ignored by mainstream churches and religious leaders over this “grace” thing. And rightly so, because IF God saves just one person who does not deserve it, he must then save all who do not “deserve” it. Otherwise, God is playing favorites on some other scale. Which would boggle the mind, if indeed God created us all, why favor some? “Grace to you” indeed. If Paul used that phrase so very much, should we use it at least sometimes? After all, we’re told in II Tim 1:13 to “have a pattern of sound words”. And what could be more “sound” than frequently greeting one another with the good news.. “grace to you.”
• Tuesday

linwood austin 9:30 PM
• Rodd, you’re brave to post on the atheist chat board. keep in mind, Paul says that faith is a gift. I guess God has not given them faith yet.
• • Just thinking.
• Today Rodd Mann sent the following message at 10:47 AM

Rodd Mann 10:47 AM
• Yes, correct, salvation is a gift. Our lives are a gift. Faith is a gift. And other gifts are given according to the will and love of God to each of us (e.g. generosity)
• linwood austin sent the following message at 11:36 AM

linwood austin 11:36 AM
• But one day… every knee will bow, and every tongue will confess… and whoever confesses Jesus is Lord will be… what?
• Rodd Mann sent the following message at 11:39 AM

Rodd Mann 11:39 AM
• Not all who say “Lord, Lord will be saved,” though the time will come when everyone will recognize the Messiah, including the Jews who mostly rejected Him. For He will return to rule and reign for a thousand years.
• linwood austin sent the following messages at 11:40 AM

linwood austin 11:40 AM
• .. one thousand years, and THEN His reign will end. See I Cor 15:25… “he must reign UNTIL…”
• • Not “forever”… “UNTIL”
• Rodd Mann sent the following message at 11:42 AM

Rodd Mann 11:42 AM
• You parse and pick, but you won’t look at the greater text. Jesus spoke more of hell than anything else. All roads do not lead to heaven. You are simply wrong in this but your pride prevents you from seeing the error of your ways Linwood. I cannot help you so have nothing more to offer you, sorry
• linwood austin sent the following messages at 11:44 AM

linwood austin 11:44 AM
• All roads do not lead to heaven. I don’t believe “all roads lead to heaven… But… I do believe God is the savior of all mankind, especially of believers… as it says in I TIM 4:10.
• • And guess what…??? Verse 9 says about verse 10…
• • It says it is a welcome saying…
• • and worthy of all acceptance.
• • How is that for context?
•

linwood austin 11:48 AM
• And verse 11 says TEACH THIS.

• I became a christain in 1967… estimate I hear some 4,000 sermons before I quit going to church… and out of 4,000 sermons, I never once heard I TIM 4:10, even though V9 says this is a welcome saying… and even though V11 says TEACH THIS.
• • hear=heard
• Rodd Mann sent the following messages at 12:29 PM
• lol
•

Rodd Mann 12:32 PM
• I’ve met some self-proclaimed Christians who reject all of what Paul wrote. But you’re the first to claim all roads lead to heaven and everyone gets saved. This doctrinal error is as egregious as the cults that deny the deity of Jesus Christ. You are on your own. Good luck. Perhaps consider creating yet another religion
• linwood austin sent the following messages at 2:31 PM

linwood austin 2:31 PM
• “For even as in Adam, all die, so in Christ shall all be made alive”. Rodd, those are powerful words from Paul. (I Cor 15:20-28)…
• • “For even as in Adam, all die, so in Christ shall all be made alive”. Rodd, those are powerful words from Paul. (I Cor 15:20-28)…
• • It’s not that “all roads lead to heaven”… no… It’s that in Christ, all will be made alive.”
•

linwood austin 2:36 PM
• … one thing you should consider are the TIME words in the sacred text. You see, there is no word in the greek or hebrew text that is the exact equivalent of our english word “eternal”.
• • The proper word there, is AGE or perhaps EON. Why? Because the scripture says “the end of the ages”…
• • You could not say “the end of the eternals”… that would not make sense.
• • Yet…it’s the same word “aions”.
•

linwood austin 2:39 PM
• If you take punishment and rewards and make them “eternal”… you’re doing more than what the scriptures actually say. They say punishments and rewards are “aionious”. Or agelasting (as Young’s Literal Translation says.)
• Plus… if you make punishments “eternal” you defeat the accomplishments of God’s work in Christ’s cross. And Paul says, all will be reconciled through the blood of his cross. (COL 1:20).
• • You’re a smart guy… look it up… the word AGE and ETERNAL are the same word.
• And age has a beginning and an end… and thus, things “eternal” must also be concerning that aions too.
• • that=the
• • Does God play favorites?
• • I think not.
• • So, if one person who does not deserve to be saved, is saved, then God must save all… or he is playing favorites.
linwood austin 2:46 PM
• You seem to suggest that God favors “eternally” all who do the right thing. But I have it on good authority that all have sinned.
• • And that… the wages of sin is death… but… good news… I COR 15:25 promises that one day, the wages of sin will be abolished.
• • And God will be all in all (V28)
• • And God will be all in all (V28)
• Rodd Mann sent the following messages at 3:10 PM
• No. Legalism implies we have the ability to make ourselves righteous. Perfection is the standard for entry into heaven, so only those clothed in the righteousness of Christ, by faith, will enter in.
• • Matthew 22:10-12 10So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, the bad as well as the good, and the wedding hall was filled with guests. 11″But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. 12He asked, ‘How did you get in here without wedding clothes, friend?’ The man was speechless.
• • All have indeed sinned and come short of the glory of God. We are not sinners because we sin. We sin because we are a race of sinners.
• victory over sin and death occurred at the cross. By faith we apprehend the gift of salvation. But you are ignoring hundreds of Scripture on hell. Gehenna was created for the devil and his angels. But you and many others will join them if you refuse the gift of God.
• • Here are one hundred verses on hell for you to carefully study. Or continue to ignore. Your choice: https://www.openbible.info/topics/hell_is_created_for_the_devil_and_his_angels
100 Bible Verses about Hell Is Created For The Devil And His Angels
openbible.info
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chai…

• linwood austin sent the following message at 5:28 PM
• Let me ask you a question…
• Rodd Mann sent the following message at 5:29 PM
Rodd Mann 5:29 PM
• Have you rejected all 100 Scriptures on hell Linwood?
• linwood austin sent the following message at 5:30 PM
• I accept them all.
• Rodd Mann sent the following messages at 5:30 PM

Rodd Mann 5:30 PM
• Then you’re conflicted
• • Or you “spiritualize” them; or as you prefer to characterize them as “a figure of speech.” LOL
• If I approach exegesis and hermeneutics as you do I can make up anything I want. But God has warnings for those who either “add to” or “subtract from” the entire canon of Scripture…familiar?
• linwood austin sent the following message at 5:33 PM

• Ok, so you don’t want me to believe that God is the savior of all mankind??
• Rodd Mann sent the following message at 5:33 PM

• What a silly remark, why would you make it?
• linwood austin sent the following message at 5:34 PM

• Well…
• Rodd Mann sent the following message at 5:34 PM
• Bottom line: Conscious faith in Christ is necessary for salvation. Consider John 3:36, “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.” The only way to be saved is to believe in the Son—to hear the message about Jesus, turn from your sin, and trust in him for salvation.
• linwood austin sent the following message at 5:34 PM
• I suggest that God is the savior of all mankind, and you seem to think there is a problem.
• Rodd Mann sent the following messages at 5:36 PM
• My problem is not with Scripture. It is with you. You twist and pervert parts of it to suit an “all roads lead to God” ethos that is simply not supported by 66 Books of the Bible taken together in context. You stand in a small minority and unless you repent you won’t see God but the wrath will be upon you. Be careful Linwood. I am not your enemy. Your own foolish and twisted interpretation is taking you through the wide gate and down the broad path most people go…it ends in destruction
•

Rodd Mann 5:38 PM
• Give it up, at least stop pestering me; we are going full circle and I reject your doctrine of devil fully and completely. This is guy last response to you Lindwood. Sorry. But you’re troubled. And you’re wrong. Bye. May God have mercy on your soul.
• linwood austin sent the following messages at 5:39 PM
Would you like to hear a faithful saying…one that is worthy of all welcome? Here it is… I TIM 4:9-11
9 Faithful is the saying and worthy of all welcome
10 (for for this are we toiling and being reproached), that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of believers.
11 These things be charging and teaching.
linwood austin 5:41 PM
When is the last time you told someone THAT GOD IS THE SAVIOR OF ALL MANKIND, ESPECIALLY OF BELIEVERS??? Ya know… verse 11 says you should teach this.

God’s Eternal Purpose VS God’s Eonian Purpose.

AN OPEN LETTER TO FRANK VIOLA AND THE GENE EDWARDS CHURCHES

The word PURPOSE by itself, hints at something that has limits.

If my “purpose” is to fix the broken toilet, then I must get started, do all that’s needed and then finish… my “purpose”.

To suggest that God’s “purpose” has no beginning and no end… is to create fog, confusion, and toss out the meanings of words.

Eph 3:11 is not talking about “God’s eternal purpose”… but instead, it’s talking about “God’s eonian purpose.”

The mistake came when John Wycliffe created the very first English Bible. All he had access to was the Latin translation of the bible. And this Latin version of the bible was from the 3^rd century. And… in the 3^rd century Latin, the words “eternuam” and “secularum” were synonyms… often used interchangeably.

John Wycliffe did not know this. So, when Wycliffe got to the word “secularum” he used the English word “world” (secular = world, get it?)

But he had never seen this word “eternuam” before… so he made up a new English word = “eternal”.

Thus, we get biblical references to the “end of the world”… and we might never know that we’d also get “the end of the ‘eternaums”… NOTE: IT’S THE SAME WORD synonyms… WORLD, AND ETERNAL… BOTH ARE LIMITED IN SCOPE.

In Eph 3:11, Paul is speaking of God’s “EONIAN” purpose. The Greek word is AIONIOUS. (A LONG PERIOD OF TIME, BUT NOT “ENDLESS”)

“ETERNAL” is a made up word. It’s a mistake John Wycliffe made.

So, now, the great question is, WHAT IS GOD’S EONIAN PURPOSE?

Gene Edwards and Witness Lee would have us believe that “God’s eternal purpose” is to have a “church” or “corporate man” that rules and reigns with Christ “eternally”.

Not gonna happen. Why? Because Christ himself does not ‘rule and reign eternally”.

PROOF: I Cor 15:25. There we see that eventually Christ will ABOLISH all rule… ABOLISH all authority… AND ABOLISH all power… including his own RULE, AUTHORITY, AND POWER… “For he must reign UNTIL” (I Cor 15:25)… Did you see that? Did you see the word UNTIL????

Christ doesn’t reign “for ever and ever” he reigns UNTIL something happens.

He reigns UNTIL his 4 enemies are abolished. The first 3 enemies are rulership, authority and power… and the final enemy is DEATH.

And when the final enemy (death, the wages of sin,) is abolished, Then God will be all in all.

NOTE: as long as God is “NOT” all in all, you’ll need rule, authority, power, and even the wages of sin… but once all that is put away, God becomes “all in all”… not “all in some”…  not “some in some”…. Not “some in all”…

But ALL IN ALL.

The Church has a special but temporary place in God’s purpose.

God Eonian Purpose is not to have Christ and the Church “rule” for ever and ever, instead, God’s eonian purpose is to be all in all.

I TIM 4:10 says the believers have a “special” place, not an “exclusive” place… God is the savior of all mankind, especially (not exclusively) of believers.

The word ESPECIALLY puts a temporary emphasis on one group above another group. But not a permanent emphasis.

If I say “come to the party Saturday, and bring the cokes, but especially the diet cokes”. Do I mean for you to leave behind the cokes? No. Just that I have an urgent, special need for the diet cokes.

Here is a link to a more complete history of how ETERNAL got into our bible:

http://www.heavendwellers.com/hd_how_eternity_slipped_in.htm

HERE IS A LINK TO BUY A LITTLE BOOKLET OF THIS TOPIC… 40 PAGES BY MR THOMSON

Whence Eternity?

The purpose of God in the eons of time, does include “the church” but it doesn’t stop there.

Gene Edwards and Witness Lee, both spend too much time focused on “the church” and fail to see all that was accomplished by God in the Cross of Christ.

The “church” is a small part of the plan. The bigger part of the plan is to abolish rule, power, authority and death. “For even as in Adam, all die, so in Christ shall all be made alive”. (I Cor 15:22)

If you stretch out the word PURPOSE to be a “purpose” with out beginning and without end (“eternal”) you’re really locking things into an endless loop. And the “purpose” will never be concluded.

There is no such thing as “God’s Eternal Purpose”. To try and define it, one can go in any direction, as the words have no real meaning.

So, now we must ask “What is God’s purpose?” – Now that we know it’s an eonian purpose, we can ask with the real hope of getting an answer.

God’s purpose is to be all… in… all. (I Cor 15:28)

The Glorious End Of The Reign Of Christ

You may remember, that Revelation 11:15 promises that Christ will “reign forever and ever”.

But I’m writing to share with you that his reign will actually come to an end. And I have it on good authority. Let me explain.

You see, you need rule over unruly people. And as long as Christ has to “reign” over anyone, it suggests that there is some trouble brewing somewhere. To suggest that Christ must hold authority and power over the world, or the universe “forever and ever” is to suggest that his work of reconciling the universe (COL 1:20) never happens.

GOOD NEWS: Brother Paul gives us a “revelation” that is greater in scope and importance than what James penned in “The Book Of Revelations”.

If you spend some time with I Corinthians 15:20-28, you’ll see that at some point in the future, RULE, AUTHORITY and POWER are to be abolished. Including Christ’s rule, authority and power. Indeed, Paul says “For He must reign UNTIL…”.

That little word “UNTIL” adds a huge new dimension to our understanding of God’s purpose and plan.

Christ MUST reign UNTIL something happens. And after that something, His reign ends. And It’s glorious.

In this passage (I COR 15:20-28) Paul reveals that when we reach “the end” Christ will abolish all rule, all authority, and all power, including His own rule, authority and power.

And if you consider Paul’s words, you might rightly conclude that rule, authority and power are actually God’s enemies. Even the rule of Christ must be considered an “enemy” of God. How so?

Well, Paul says these three elements (rule, authority, power) are to be abolished, THEN he goes on to say, “The last enemy to be abolished is death”.

Yes, “death” is an enemy of God. And yes, rule, authority and power are equally listed in the passage as “enemies”.

You see, the reason these four things are listed as enemies of God, is that their presence means, God has not finished with His great plan, His great purpose.

But when God reaches the completion, the moment when everything comes together in His purpose, Then Christ will give up his rulership, all are “made alive”, death (the wages of sin) is abolished, and God, then will be, “ALL IN ALL.

It’s so easy to think of James and his “Book of Revelations” as the final word on prophecy about the future events of things. But the truth is, it was not given to James to see beyond the next two eons. However Paul did see beyond the coming eons.

When James closes his book, you still have rulership, power, authority, and you still have death, the wages of sin.

The serious Bible student will struggle that one verse says “Christ will reign forever and ever” and another verse says “He must reign UNTIL He places his enemies under his feet.”

Also note… neither Satan nor wicked men are listed as enemies of God in this passage by Paul. No. The list of “enemies” are rule, authority, power and death (the last enemy).

And this is good news.

Christ died to save sinners. And salvation will not be complete until the wages of sin, death, has been abolished.

When death is abolished, the natural result is that “even as in Adam all die, so in Christ shall all be made alive.”

If all are made alive, in Christ, death is totally undone. And something new can happen. And that new thing is Christ gives up his reign, and submits Himself to God, that God may be… not all in some… not some in all… but All In All. And this, is the Glorious End Of the Reign Of Christ.

Who is God?

Far too often, folks run around trying to figure out who they are?

“I’m trying to find myself.” they might say.

“I just want to know who I am.” they might say.

Then… if they dip their toe into religion, generally speaking, they find a “personal” God.

A “personal” God is more or less a “good luck charm.”

“My God is better than your God.” (is the attitude of many religionists.)

“My God is the right God.” (again, it’s a common notion.)

“Just ask Jesus to be your personal Lord and Saviour.” (is a common message from Christian preachers.)

And so forth.

You see this in the pages of history. The Aztecs had their personal God. The Hindus have their personal God. The ancient Greeks have their personal gods.

Even the Jews of the Old Testament tended toward this “personalized” God idea… “The God of Abraham.” “The God of Issac and Jacob”. “The God of Israel.”

Ask any Baptists or Jehovah’s Witness, etc. and you’ll see their God intends save only a limited number, not everyone, just those who meet the right qualifications; the Baptist qualifications, or the JW’s qualifications.

Again, a “personal God.”

Is it any wonder why preachers across the country, will never preach a sermon based on I Tim 4:10.

9    Faithful is the saying and worthy of all welcome
10  (for for this are we toiling and being reproached), that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of believers.
11  These things be charging and teaching.

You could, if you were a preacher, spend months on sermons just from this passage of scripture.

You could spend time talking about GOD IS… (God is the savior of all).

You could spend time talking about why or how WE RELY on this God who is the saviour of all.

You could spend time talking about our RELIANCE ON THE LIVING God. – Not a dead God. A living God.

You could spend time talking about the word ESPECIALLY, and how it’s not the word “exclusive”.

You see the word “especially” put a temporary emphasis on one group above another. Not permanent. I could say, “Come to my party on Saturday, and bring the cokes, especially the diet cokes.” By that I would mean to say that I just found out I ran out of diet soda and I need more right away.

You could spend time talking about how this belief (relying on the living God who is the Saviour of all) is not going to be popular and you’ll be reproached for it. And carrying this message is something related to “toil”. Yet Paul says to teach this. Charge it.

We know from other scriptures that God is the creator of all. It just seems awful that so many don’t see that the Creator of all, is also the Saviour of all. Why would the Living God, create all, but destroy most of his creation, as if he’s just experimenting and doesn’t know the outcome of His efforts.

God commissioned Paul to take this this evangel far beyond the Jewish nations. And when Paul step in front of a Gentile audience, something big happened. Grace was shown to those who never even heard of “the law” much list tried to keep it.

You might call Paul the “pagan’s apostle.” When Paul went to the Gentiles, God ceased being just the God of Israel. Now, we know that God’s wisdom and purpose includes all.

Who is God? Certainly He’s not your personal good luck charm. There’s toil and reproach involved in this faith. But somehow, Yet… it’s a faithful saying. And… Somehow this saying is worthy of welcome. Somehow, you must see that God’s purpose and plan is bigger than your momentary toil. The vision here transcends far beyond the believers rewards and experience. It goes to the completion of God’s creative, eonian, purpose. God is the Creator of all and the Saviour of all.

These things be charging and teaching.